what did you think of
As you know, the Kind Book Club book for March was John Joseph's Meat Is For Pussies, a vegan manifesto for men! I'm going to post your comments about it soon, so be sure to add your thoughts to this forum thread, or in the comments below!
Who did you share the book with? What questions did it raise while you were reading it? Do you think it is a good book to give people who are not on a plant-based diet? Do you think it would be effective in opening up a man's consciousness to this way of life? I can't wait to hear what you all thought!
123 comments
-
First @ Danica Davis, Thanks for the laugh, i'm still smiling. Betty really knew how to say that could make people laugh and think. I love her. Thanks
Secondly, I haven't read the book, but plan to. I hope I can get in on my Nookie tablet. LOL, JK. I can imagine that the moral meter went off the scale, but some people are heavy sleepers and need a good shaken to wake them up. I wish someone would have woke me up sooner about vegetarianism/veganism. But, I am so glad I did make the change 6 years ago.
Third, I understand what Susan Morris was saying and I agree. When I first made the good change in my life I had to deal with how family and friends would react when I shared my new way of living. It really hit hard, but nowhere as hard as it is for the animals, but hard enough to hurt. I felt rejected and even segregated. I became defensive and felt hate for those that were not empathic to animals. But I began to realize that those people were ignorant and I found that, after educating myself more about animals rights and the food industry I could then have a more logical conversation. Even if I did not convert anyone, I've given them food for thought. And that can linger in their minds till one day, Snap!, they get it. I have some friends that have even committed to trying some meatless product; with good reponses. :)
Lastly, I shared my passion with others that had similar experiences and they helped me to feel connected and happier with my self. And, of course, I can't forget my wife. Although, she wasn't a vegetarian at first, she always made me feel positive about what I was doing for animals and myself. But she has resently become a vegetarian, too. I didn't force anything on her, she just saw and listened to me and saw a positive change in me and wanted the same for herself. Now I can look someone in the eye and say, "I'm a Vegan," and wait to see their expressions, and hopefully some questions. -
I always find it ironic that pussy is used to describe a vagina and a weak man anyway. I take my theory on this is from Betty White-
"Why do people say "grow some balls"? Balls are weak and sensitive. If you wanna be tough, grow a vagina. Those things can take a pounding."
As a mother of three and owner of a tough vagina, I take no offense from this cover. I can see how words with power can perpetuate the rape culture- but not nearly as much as the attitudes that are projected in our society such as men even needing to be tough, in charge, etc. It starts with mothers and fathers teaching their boys genuine appreciation and respect for women.
I am going to have to get a few copies of this book to share with some "pussies" in my life.
-
the title of the book is not meant to be offensive; it is a play on words, as vegetarians are constantly mocked & men especially. He is only turning the phase back on the meat eater and explaining why it takes strength to abstain from eating/using animal sources. It is intended for everyone, but to mostly relate to the male and using that title may draw a differet audiance - it is an attention grabber, much like skinny bitch. in fact i saw on a facebook page today a picture of a cow and underneath the sign said: vegetarian was considered the village idiot - someone who can't hunt or fish....and naturally a bunch of people "liked" it...so if that gets one "meathead" to convert., cut down or change his views - than kudos to john joseph!
-
God, I cannot believe that this discussion is still going on. I haven't read the book, but for crying out loud! Talk about the "cotton wool generation". @Susan, I also don't understand your statement that vegans are "critical and come off as negative... suffering animals", does this mean that I can walk around and behave anyway I choose to behave because I don't eat meat? Wow, perhaps a murderer can use that excuse instead of an insanity plea.
I am a vego and I love Anthony Bourdain, not sure what point your trying to make there either. Perhaps, you took that comment out of context. My vego friend ate meat whilst traveling through remote parts of Thailand because the people were sharing their food with her, food that they didn't really have to share with a foreigner, so she accepted it gracefully.
-
To John: I have noticed many vegans are critical and come off as negative, but it comes from a place of love and the pain for they feel for suffering animals, and that's the honest truth. Many vegans and vegetarians compare the (lack of) care for animals used for food to the Nazis in Germany. It's very difficult to sit back and watch people engage in cruel behavior like it's no big deal. I heard Anthony Bordain say something once about how vegetarians make rude travelers, but I think omnivores make rude and crule human beings.
-
I think people should just lighten up about the title and have a sense of humour. I mean I wouldn't give it to my grandmother, but it definitely grabbed my attention, and isn't that what authors want their covers to do? I'd give it a go and probably have a couple laughs along the way.
-
What about not judging a book by its cover, but the content of its pages? How are we ever to learn if we don't get past the "cover". I certainly havn't learned a thing about the book from this forum (thanks), so now I will go pick up a copy and figure it out myself. I'm sure the "enlightened" people here would NEVER cast off a person for how they looked, what they were wearing. Books are people, too. Give em' a chance. This one just has a really tacky outfit on. Why don't you repurpose a pair of those sweat-wicking eco-fiber bamboo yoga pants you love so much and make a nice new cover for it, so you can set it amongst your other books without it being made fun of on the shelf for its bad taste in sportswear?
Plus I'm sure the author means housecats, which do, in fact, eat meat. Unless of course they are highly enlightened cats living on a different cosmic plaine than regular old pussies.
-
I'm not a fan of the title. I just looked at two library catalogs in my area and neither have the book. I suspect that at least one of them won't get the book due to the title. I live in an area that is highly Amish and Mennonite and their beliefs definately influence the library choices(not that their beliefs are bad). I'd love to read the book but don't have a lot of extra money so I usually go through the library system so I won't be reading this one unless I can get it for free.
-
John, is fag a substitute for lame in NYC too? Wonder how that word definitation came about....
I'm not a fan of the title, total turn-off, & big fat insult.
-
Oh....I'm sure I can find other books that will have the same info. that don't have potty words!
-
I would not want this book in my house or want to read this book due to the 2 potty words of the cover. There maybe more inside. I believe in keeping your body and earth clean. I believe keeping your body clean also includes you mouth and ears. It is ashame if this book is a good book because people who feel the same will not buy it. It is ashame it was not written for all. This is how I feel and what I believe. To each his own!
-
and for my Mexicano brothers and sisters in L.A. see you again soon and remember," Carne es para chochas!" hahaha
-
Just came off tour, gave out a lot of books and got a lot of feedback from people who read it. ALL of it positive. I notice a lot of VEGANS and so-called enlightened souls do nothing but criticize. Man, I feel for you having to live such a negative life. I had the pleasure of talking to thousands of people and with compassion, got them to think about changing their food choices. As I said the end justifies the means . Try some PMA it goes a long way. And if you dont know what that is, you should. HARI BOL!
-
You can entertain this type of paradox all day, but the truth is that even if this book had a cure for cancer, the same cure is found in countless other books that do not contain the offensive title.
-
So if this book contained a cure for cancer (which it sorta does, at least ways not to get it in the first place) you would not want it in your house because the language might offend? Your grandkids would benifit tremendously from the knowledge contained in this book and so would your husband?
How about this; buy the book, read it, absorb all that is benificial about it then put it someplace noone can see it.
-
Definitely not a book I would want in my house. I don't care for the "potty words". Too bad!
-
Todd T. - When I say "All" that is "all" with no reservations....
(regardless of sex, race, religion, or political belief) as feminine or as masculine as one prefers. As gay or as straight. ...a man should be able to be feminine regardless of having a penis, and vice-versa.
Everyone should be treated with an equal level of respect.
-
Hit the nail on the head, Neva. Some stuff is so completely enmeshed that people become used to it.
-
I got it in the mail a few weeks ago. I have been enmeshed in other books but I absolutely will read it by this weekend and discuss it here. I've been really looking forward to reading it. It's been calling to me from the shelf! :)
-
I also wanted to add that the animal rights movement and the vegan movement are not immune to sexism and/or rape culture. Many people don't even recognize when women are being treated as less, because they are simply so used to it. Female activists have been raped and abused by their fellow activists. That's why it's so important for all of us address sexism and violence, even sexism in language when we see it.
-
One more thing I want to post:
"While some people care about the suffering of animals, feminists who politicize their care for animals see a specific linkage between sexism and speciesism, between the oppression of women and the oppression of animals. Speciesism is defined as the oppression of one species by another, first defined by Peter Singer as "a prejudice or attitude of bias toward the interests of members of one's own species and against those of members of the other species." 1 Feminists and ecofeminists alike have noted the ways that animal pejoratives are used to dehumanize women, pointing to the linguistic (and thus conceptual) linkage of women and animals in such derogatory terms for women as "sow," "bitch," "pussy," "chick," "cow," "beaver," "old bat," and "bird-brain." Linguistic association with animals has also been a method of demeaning Jews and people of color, as Nazi propaganda equated Jews with "vermin," and Blacks have been called "coons" or "jungle bunnies." Some ecofeminists have investigated the ways that nonhuman animals function as an exploited underclass of workers whose "jobs" end up costing them their lives, and thereby uncovered the connection between speciesism and classism. Still other ecofeminists have addressed the way that gays, lesbians, bisexuals and transgendered persons (GLBTs) have been seen as animals, their "deviant" sexuality being their most salient feature in a homophobic society.
From an ecofeminist perspective, speciesism is a form of oppression that parallels and reinforces other form of oppression. These multiple systems -- racism, classism, sexism, speciesism -- are not merely linked, mutually reinforcing systems of oppression: they are different faces of the same system." - Greta Gaard
-
P.S.
If you are interested:
Transforming a Rape Culture by Buchwald
The Delusions of Gender by Fine
Queer (in)Justice by Ritchie
Three great books.
-
Gender equality for me is not a "single, bland, unnatractive, homogonized gender."
Not only should we all be treated equally under the law, but we should also be allowed to be (regardless of sex) as feminine or as masculine as we need. A man should be able to be feminine regardless of having a penis, and vice-versa.
We could go on forever about words and meaning, but there is a reason why people say, "it takes balls," over saying "it takes guts." One is gendered, one is not. Frankly, I know a lot of guys with balls who have not one ounce of courage, and I know women that could take on the world.
I know that some of you see me as "holier than thou" but I'm not and I never claimed to be, but in the same way that most of us grew up eating meat, there was a time when we stopped and everyone around us thought we were assholes for being preachy. I just feel that I have changed my views about words and how they relate to sexism, and now I am being labeled in all these negative ways.
I understand why Johnny is defensive; it is his book and I think all of us would feel the same way. On the other hand, like has been said by others in the thread, we are vegans because we question and we cannot lose that quality; all I aimed to do was make you question why you use the words you do. We have to question as a part of our personal evolution. Instead of immediately dismissing someone, I think we should all take the time to critique our own thoughts and actions, just like we did when we read our first book on veganism and thought, "damn, I shouldn't be killing and torturing these animals." I felt the same way when I realized, "hey I shouldn't call guys pussies, homos, or gay in a casual manner." That's just one example...
You're going to feel the way you do, all I hope for is that we continue to question everything as individuals and as a movement.
-
I love to tell people to "grow a pair of tits" instead of guts, balls or whatever... I know that it softens the blow of an insult, and having my own, I can speak from experience as a strong woman... and it is funny. I do not advocate violence in language, passively OR actively, but as I have grown out of my 20s and thru most of my 30s I find my perspective @ stuff like this to be more focused on intent behind a person's words. so although this book's title doesn't make me want to read it, I am not insulted. I don't feel judgey against someone who does feel insulted though, I get that side of the coin also.
-
-
(Language related thoughts...) A couple interesting notes about language, word choice, communication, and freedom. ...and a thought about gender equality too.
First, an interesting fact about language is that it is not a fixed hard thing. By its nature it is an abstraction -- an idea. If you browse through a dictionary you will rapidly confirm that most words have more than one interpretation, usage, and meaning. Language is a living entity that evolves over time. Moreover, context is key. Context is more far ranging than where the words appear in a sentence. Context includes the mind of the reader. This is where it gets dicey. All of the reader's past is applied to his or her interpretation of the words. That is why we see the wild varience in our reactions to the four letter phrase "Meat is for Pussies".
Word choices have great power. That is a fact. This fact has been clearly evidenced by the empassioned discussion that has come to life here in response to a simple question, "What did you think of 'Meat is for Pussies'?" Among other things, word choices enable a writer to set a tone, shade a scene, make a specific point, and make a topic relatable to a target audience.
With regards to freedom... Though our civil liberties seem to be shaved down with each passing year, we should still be thankful that we live in a country where books, with outlandish titles and potentially offensive content (like 'Meat is for Pussies") can still be written and published.
Now about gender equality... There is no such thing. If there were, there would be a single, bland, unattractive, homogonized gender. Now, before you get your proverbial panties up in a bunch, I do agree that all should have equal rights under the law and all should be treated with an equal degree of respect.
There you have it.-- my 2 cents.
-
Kudos to Remy, Miles and Todd.
I haven't read all the comments, but it's great to see guys who feel so passionate about veganism as well as gender eqaulity.
I personally wasn't offended by the book's title but after seeing those comments it does make me think twice about it. There is also a book called 'The Sexual Politics of Meat' that reminded me a lot of what was being said.
Now if I could just get MY boyfriend on board... ;)
Available at:
Available at:
Join the Discussion!