The KInd Life Community Forum

this morning started of fkind of cranky and grumpy. then i realized that i had forgotten the veggie chili at home that i was going to have for lunch. GRRR. so i decided to go next door to dairy queen and get their veggie quesadilla (im veggie, not vegan)
i was starving so i scarfed it down. about 5 bites in i realized THERE WAS CHICKEN IN IT! i wanted to throw up. i was so mad and grossed out and sad. i was going to bring it back and complain but my break was almost over and i wasnt hungry anymore either.
GGGGGGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2 1/2 months animal free!! and then THIS!!!!
and then i got back to work and i was kind of groaning about it, and one of the girls was like "god- are you REALLY mad that you ate chicken?? whats the big deal? you ate chicken 3 months ago and didnt even think about it..." ARG! and im trying to explain that ive CHANGED and that im not eating animals now because this whole change in mindset has taken place where i view animals as ANIMALS now and not inanimate food. once youve made that switch its hard to eat flesh!!! she didnt get it. so in the middle of this "argument", when im frustrated and beaten down, the doctor that i work with comes in (he's a pediatrician) and asks whats going on. it comes out that im a vegetarian, wich ive been avoiding talking to him about because he's so "ME LOVE STEAK" sure enough he launches into this speech about how eating meat is "normal" blah blah blah. so i start fighting back and throwing some facts around (the first real debate ive had since going veg, and its with a DR for gods sake- go figure) it finally ended with him saying "isnt that leather on your shoes?" and me throwing my hands in the air and walking away, feeling totally exhausted, belittled, and just downright sad. :(

Please give me the Dr.'s email address :) I can debate him on purely logical reasons to go Veggie/Vegan.

I LOVE debating this issue. I've recently started working at a new office and debated everyone to the ground on this issue. (no converts, but no solid arguments against the logic).

When presented with the 'eating meat is normal' argument I usually go for the (somewhat compliant) argument of: Yes, human biology/chemistry/survival mentality at it's base makes us scavengers. We are omnivores. But (!) in this day and age we are not consuming the pure meat we were in the hunter-gatherer days. Factory farming is NOT natural. We are consuming meat that is filled with antibiotics and hormones (and meat that is contaminated by the toxins that animals release when they are not completely unconscious upon slaughter which we ingest, and makes the meat taste less yummy and allows us to ingest unneeded toxins) that are causing adverse health side-effects that the mass majority aren't aware of. I used to work in the butcher department of a local store. I could feel the difference in my knife when making cuts. Despite any ethical reasons, I am someone that went from having a bacon wrapped Fillet Mignon for breakfast & lunch to vegan.
I have leather boots. I have leather jackets. All but one of these items were purchased used (thrift store). When someone confronts me about these issues I say "Yeah, and these purchases were made prior to my current knowledge". I'm not going to waste my money on buying new things that are unnecessary, I'm going to wear what have out until I need new, which seems to be the 'kind' thing to do.
Don't ever feel depleted in your arguments. You have reason on your side.

ok... i have SUCH an awesome update! i've been crazy busy so i haven't really been able to post, but i wanted to add this.
the next day i came into work, and was talking about how i was going out to dinner with my fanily that night to celebrate my dad's birthday. i mentioned that my dad loves calamari and that he would be getting that (EEW) The same doctor overheard and was like "hey can you eat calamari? or do you feel bad for calamari?" and i whipped around and said "enough. dont make fun of me."
long pause.
then he kind of sighs and says, get this- "well actually... i went home last night and i was thinking about what you said..."

HOLY CRAP!! stop right there! i made enough of a point that he actually went home with this?!? YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY! this is the man who claims to be heartless, like its everything's a big joke (but i know he's not heartless- he's a wonderful pediatrician, father and husband) but still.

so then he's like- "i was thinking about what you said, and i realized that i think thats why i dont eat veal when we go out to eat. i've always kind of shied away from it without thinking about why, but when we talked yesterday i realized that was why. its so sad to think about what they go through."
and me, seeing my chance, is like "I KNOW! but the killer is that even if you dont eat veal but you DO eat dairy you're still contributing to the veal industry! what do you think happens when the dairy cows have babies and they are boys?" and he was all "hmmmmmmmm...." and then the phone rang (DAMNIT!!) and the moment was over.

but oh. my. god. i talked to one of the nurses about it afterward who has worked with him for 15 years, and she said she was amazed.

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

For all the people that say 'you wear leather, etc"...you can always focus more on the "health" aspect of not eating meat than the ethical. I started this from a purely "health-conscious" standpoint (which of course evolved into ethical as well once I started reading the book). You could aslo say: "yes, I bought leather before I knew" - it's the same as Doctors telling their patients it was ok to drink/smoke while prgnant (back in the day) or using leaded gasoline - we constantly learn and evolve and shouldn't kick ourselves for no tknowing better - we know NOW and we can do better NOW and that is what counts!! :))

I'm so happy to hear that what you said resonated with the doctor and he took time to think about it! Maybe it's the first step in him re-evaluating our whole food industry, or at least recognizing the inherent cruelty in it. You should be proud of yourself for voicing your opinion. For me, it's always a really fine line - I get so, so emotional thinking and talking about this issue, but I try as hard as I can not to get overly emotional when I'm talking about it with others so I can sanely and academically tell them about the things I've learned. It's really hard for me, but I'm trying. My gut reaction is to strangle someone who's arguing with me and coldly tell them how they're hurting animals and destroying their body everday, but I know that's not fair or effective and will likely have the opposite effect on them. I really struggle with it. anyway, it's tough, but great job for sticking to your guns and getting this guy to see a ray of light.