The KInd Life Community Forum

Sorry if that offended you Cynthia, I only said that because you said "particularly cows" instead of "cows for example." I think the "humanely rasied" meat and animal products that you find in stores is not truly raised humanely and people are made to believe that they are. The labeling is ridiculous and the standards for "humanely raised" are not strong enough.

Additionally, if one has to supplement Vitamin B12 because a vegan diet alone cannot supply it, then it would seem that it cannot abundantly be supplied in nature...so to be vegan can only work in this society where when can buy it as a supplement or inject it in order for the body to be well? Also not taken into account it would seem, is that anthropologists have yet to identify a society living on plant foods alone, without synthetic supplements, spanning generations of vegan mothers and fathers, children and grandchildren. Especially with respect to the fertility of women, even many in India where societies of vegan and vegetarians exist and in Africa, young women (of birthing age) are fed a special diet containing animal fat for six months before marriage to expedite dietary needs for healthy offspring. So truly, then, how can a vegan diet be healthy if it cannot be completely found in nature? It seems to only be able to work if all you need is supplied by this "modern" society. I have been involved in the field of naturopathy for years now and believe that while many can live a vegan lifestyle today if they are very well informed and use supplementation and be moderately healthy, in the case of type O's it cannot be successful in the person having optimum health, as O's require animal protein, as people of this blood type existed at a time when such modern supplementation was impossible and they survived as hunter/gathers, and when over 90% of the world at that time was thought to be of this blood type. I say to each their own, and I understand the love of animals, but I cannot agree when other vegans purport that everyone can be vegan and be healthy. Furthermore, while I love animals also, they are worthy, beautiful and valuable, I do not feel that they have equal value as that of a human life. Have vegans ever seriously asked the question but why then aren't other animals vegan? In nature only some animals are vegetarian, even mammals such as dolphins eat other animals. Such is nature, and I do not believe that being vegan is natural or innate to most species.

Humanely raised then killed and eaten with BBQ sauce. I can't put that together.

[First point -- there are different reasons and practices that people choose veganism, and not everyone goes 100% all in, and I guess each of us has to decide whether we agree with that and can accept differing points of view.]

There are some people, not famous but as someone said above, bloggers with a following, who've given up veganism and now eat "humanely raised and killed" meats. And boy, are they talking trash about vegans in particular!

Goody for them, but honestly -- and these people can be as strident as vegans get accused of being -- the "happy cow" is just a myth for 99% of us. If I wanted to eat only humanely raised meat (and if it could be verified) that I could afford, I'd be eating as much meat as I eat now, which is NOTHING.

Personally, I have no ideological problem with the fact that an animal has to die to feed a human. But with 7 BILLION humans on the planet, with 300 Million high-consuming Americans and now that many plus the potential for more in China (they have passed us on meat consumption now), there is simply no way to humanely raise and slaughter any animal for human consumption. Horrific mega-factories are the only way, and *that* is what I find unacceptable and downright nauseating and why I can't eat meat. Although my primary reason for going vegan was dietary, and it's helped immensely with several health problems.

If there were a way to eat meat that is affordable, even if only occasionally, and the animals didn't need to be poisoned with chemicals and hormones and then tortured for their entire short, miserable lives, I might still be doing it. But these "go eat some free range bacon" types are severely deluded if anybody but their yuppie selves can find such a thing. (And I bet they don't always, either!) It would be easier to eat Unicorn meat!

@Carrie Ryan, you might want to try "eco Atkins." It's basically vegan low-carb. It's no fun but it's what I do to maintain my weight and prevent diabetes.

@Janet Vandenabeele, I know what you're going through. Very hard for me to find vegan shoes that I can wear to work and/or walk in. You might want to try Lulu's. I don't like shopping for shoes online either but they're cheap and I've had good luck with them as far as fit goes.